The rest of the first amendment is also a part of the issue with requiring students to say the pledge as well. Requiring someone to say something they do not wish to, religious or otherwise, is unconstitutional.
Congress shall make no law … or abridging the freedom of speech, …
It's unconstitutional; it violates the First Amendment. Years ago I had a dust-up with my daughter's school after they sent me a letter notifying me that my daughter refused to stand and say the Pledge (I won). Years later, as an administrator in a charter school I ran into the same issue but they'd already done their research. It's fascinating that the right wing morons get away with this stuff while they knock themselves out opposing anything that would actually make a positive change in people;s lives.
Firstly, an obligatory reminder- from the Constitution- that "it isn't in the Constitution" is not a valid argument that a right doesn't exist, or that it may be infringed upon by the government:
Freedom from religion, also known as church/state separation, is one such right- but it may also be read as implicit in the protections of the First Amendment, since freedom of religion 𝘳𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘴 freedom from it. If one is free to believe in and practice a religion, that means one must be free to 𝘯𝘰𝘵 believe in or practice all of the others- and if one has the right to convert from one religion to another, then one has the freedom to 𝘯𝘰𝘵 believe in or practice that religion as well. Thus, in order for freedom 𝘰𝘧 religion to exist, freedom 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 religion is a prerequisite (atheists simply exercise said freedom against one more religion than everyone else does).
Secondly... the Pledge of Allegiance is a shitty fascist loyalty oath, and it is completely unnecessary and useless to any legitimate purpose of the state. Its existence, and the Republicans' insistence on forcing it upon the rest of us, are antithetical to the very notion of "liberty and justice for all."
I keep saying it: The United States should have done away with this useless relic of a loyalty oath ages ago. It belongs in an autocracy, not a constitutional republic and secular government.
COMPELLED speech? In a country that supposedly values and honors FREE SPEECH??? Congratulations, Arizona. Your legislature has well and truly jumped the shark on this one. What's next, morning prayers?
One can only hope that the governor will veto it, but I am not hopeful.
I've reached a point in my life where I honestly see no reason to ever attempt to force anyone to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the National Anthem, or whatever other current group performance idiocy may be in vogue for the next 15 minutes.
Allow me to clarify. I do not think it a good idea to try and coerce/manipulate/force people into repeating something they may not, for whatever reason, believe in as though said repetition will fix anything. Let's be honest here: The vast majority of US citizens simply had the fortune of being born in this country. That's it. Sure, there are things that benefit everyone in the nation, but I can completely understand why someone might not want to pledge allegiance to a country that hasn't been looking out for their best interests over the long haul. I've had plenty of days myself when I've felt the same way, most notably when SCOTUS butchered RvW last year. I have to say, waking up one morning with less civil rights than I went to bed with was not a fun feeling.
Attempting to force this issue simply results in people lying about it. I've had more than enough lies to last me through the rest of my days, even if I were to somehow live to be 10,000,000 years old. I am not interested in trying to make people do bad performance theater as though it has meaning, and I am disappointed (but not terribly surprised) in my government for trying to do so. Don't we have real issues to address in the Arizona House? Because quite frankly, I can find PLENTY for you representatives to do if this is the sort of bill you're wasting time on.
We have no pledge and if you ask someone to sing/recite the national hymn, you will be lucky to have more than a couple of phrases. That must be why we are currently in a civil war 🙄
Another dipshit state legislator wasting taxpayers' money on useless culture war legislation instead of addressing real problems that require facts, reason and compromise--all to which today's MAGA Republicans are impervious.
The much missed Ed Brayton (or Bratyon if you are Modus, whom I also miss) used to say that some of the dumbest people in America could be found amongst state legislators.
Do they have foreign students in Arizona? Well I'm pretty sure they do because a school I was associated with had a relationship with a school in Tempe, and they swap students. With these foreign students be forced to commit treason by saying a pledge to the American state? Just askin'. 😎
Why do Rethuglikkkan lawmakers lie and intentionally violate the very Constitution they swore an oath support and defend? Are their promises as empty as they are?
"State Rep. Barbara Parker claimed the bill was legal because church/state separation wasn't in the Constitution."
You know what else isn't in the Constitution? The Pledge of Allegiance.
Forced speech is not free speech.
I’ll say it again…
Forced speech is not free speech.
The rest of the first amendment is also a part of the issue with requiring students to say the pledge as well. Requiring someone to say something they do not wish to, religious or otherwise, is unconstitutional.
Congress shall make no law … or abridging the freedom of speech, …
Forced speech is not free speech.
Once again, a republican works pretty hard to demonstrate they're impervious to facts.
"Separation of church and state emerges from the First Amendment and has repeatedly been interpreted that way by the courts."
The courts. Uh-oh.
It's unconstitutional; it violates the First Amendment. Years ago I had a dust-up with my daughter's school after they sent me a letter notifying me that my daughter refused to stand and say the Pledge (I won). Years later, as an administrator in a charter school I ran into the same issue but they'd already done their research. It's fascinating that the right wing morons get away with this stuff while they knock themselves out opposing anything that would actually make a positive change in people;s lives.
Collective insanity.
Firstly, an obligatory reminder- from the Constitution- that "it isn't in the Constitution" is not a valid argument that a right doesn't exist, or that it may be infringed upon by the government:
"𝑨𝒎𝒆𝒏𝒅𝒎𝒆𝒏𝒕 𝑰𝑿- 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝒆𝒏𝒖𝒎𝒆𝒓𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒊𝒏 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑪𝒐𝒏𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒕𝒖𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏, 𝒐𝒇 𝒄𝒆𝒓𝒕𝒂𝒊𝒏 𝒓𝒊𝒈𝒉𝒕𝒔, 𝒔𝒉𝒂𝒍𝒍 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒃𝒆 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒔𝒕𝒓𝒖𝒆𝒅 𝒕𝒐 𝒅𝒆𝒏𝒚 𝒐𝒓 𝒅𝒊𝒔𝒑𝒂𝒓𝒂𝒈𝒆 𝒐𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓𝒔 𝒓𝒆𝒕𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒆𝒅 𝒃𝒚 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒑𝒆𝒐𝒑𝒍𝒆."
Freedom from religion, also known as church/state separation, is one such right- but it may also be read as implicit in the protections of the First Amendment, since freedom of religion 𝘳𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘴 freedom from it. If one is free to believe in and practice a religion, that means one must be free to 𝘯𝘰𝘵 believe in or practice all of the others- and if one has the right to convert from one religion to another, then one has the freedom to 𝘯𝘰𝘵 believe in or practice that religion as well. Thus, in order for freedom 𝘰𝘧 religion to exist, freedom 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 religion is a prerequisite (atheists simply exercise said freedom against one more religion than everyone else does).
Secondly... the Pledge of Allegiance is a shitty fascist loyalty oath, and it is completely unnecessary and useless to any legitimate purpose of the state. Its existence, and the Republicans' insistence on forcing it upon the rest of us, are antithetical to the very notion of "liberty and justice for all."
I keep saying it: The United States should have done away with this useless relic of a loyalty oath ages ago. It belongs in an autocracy, not a constitutional republic and secular government.
COMPELLED speech? In a country that supposedly values and honors FREE SPEECH??? Congratulations, Arizona. Your legislature has well and truly jumped the shark on this one. What's next, morning prayers?
One can only hope that the governor will veto it, but I am not hopeful.
I've reached a point in my life where I honestly see no reason to ever attempt to force anyone to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the National Anthem, or whatever other current group performance idiocy may be in vogue for the next 15 minutes.
Allow me to clarify. I do not think it a good idea to try and coerce/manipulate/force people into repeating something they may not, for whatever reason, believe in as though said repetition will fix anything. Let's be honest here: The vast majority of US citizens simply had the fortune of being born in this country. That's it. Sure, there are things that benefit everyone in the nation, but I can completely understand why someone might not want to pledge allegiance to a country that hasn't been looking out for their best interests over the long haul. I've had plenty of days myself when I've felt the same way, most notably when SCOTUS butchered RvW last year. I have to say, waking up one morning with less civil rights than I went to bed with was not a fun feeling.
Attempting to force this issue simply results in people lying about it. I've had more than enough lies to last me through the rest of my days, even if I were to somehow live to be 10,000,000 years old. I am not interested in trying to make people do bad performance theater as though it has meaning, and I am disappointed (but not terribly surprised) in my government for trying to do so. Don't we have real issues to address in the Arizona House? Because quite frankly, I can find PLENTY for you representatives to do if this is the sort of bill you're wasting time on.
We have no pledge and if you ask someone to sing/recite the national hymn, you will be lucky to have more than a couple of phrases. That must be why we are currently in a civil war 🙄
Another dipshit state legislator wasting taxpayers' money on useless culture war legislation instead of addressing real problems that require facts, reason and compromise--all to which today's MAGA Republicans are impervious.
Where's Michael Newdow when you need him?
The much missed Ed Brayton (or Bratyon if you are Modus, whom I also miss) used to say that some of the dumbest people in America could be found amongst state legislators.
Thankfully, republicans do not have a supermajority in the legislature so if this were to pass, Governor Hobbs can veto this batshit crazy bill.
Do they have foreign students in Arizona? Well I'm pretty sure they do because a school I was associated with had a relationship with a school in Tempe, and they swap students. With these foreign students be forced to commit treason by saying a pledge to the American state? Just askin'. 😎
Why do Rethuglikkkan lawmakers lie and intentionally violate the very Constitution they swore an oath support and defend? Are their promises as empty as they are?
I know. Silly question.