Do Christians really believe that the reason non-Christian, American kids aren't going to church is that they've never heard of Jesus Christ? That that's even possible?
Even if Wood was fully prepared, resourced, and staffed to make it happen, I think I still wouldn't endorse it.
I think the secularist response to "we want kids to be able to choose to get out of school classes for bible classes" should be "we don't want kids to be able to choose to get out of any school classes", NOT "we want kids to also be able to get out of school classes for secular classes."
IOW: that public school art class the kids are skipping to go to bibe study? That art class IS the "secular alternative" we should be endorsing. I'm not looking to pull kids away from the district's curriculum to teach them my ideas. I'm looking to support that curriculum.
Schools shouldn't be viewed as pools of potential believers. This just pisses me off so much, misusing public schools to troll for followers. And this guy Wood isn't doing anyone any favors with his nonsense. Yes, I would like to see these churchy programs eliminated. But being a loco, screaming jerk is not the way to go about it.
What it REALLY is is a waste of time and taxpayer money. That time could be spent in INSTRUCTION, rather than INDOCTRINATION, yet there are school officials who will allow this foolishness to go on because they continue to be hornswoggled by the notion that religion and faith are positive influences on individuals and communities.
If parents really want their kids to learn religion, they can send them to Sunday School. They should NOT be wasting public resources which are dedicated to public schools.
𝘜𝘨𝘩. How can anyone win when everyone in the game is a loser?
Don't try to bluff your way to a win unless you have the resources and a plan to follow through when the theocrats call your bluff- because they 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭; they're playing for keeps. So come prepared, or else leave it in the hands of someone more capable of backing up their talk, like TST or the FFRF. Otherwise, you'll end up looking like... well, like 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 clown.
This is fuel for Christian propaganda. All done to give people the false impression of how it's better to have Christian programs than atheist programs because "secular" programs are run by worthless cranks while Christians are run by "better, knowledgeable" people. Never mind there are certain "secular" organizations that are run by better, knowledgeable, well organized people, such as The Secular Coalition for America for instance.
Now I wonder if he's an actual Fundie Christian in disguise or something.
[if American Secularists were to offer the program they’ve proposed during lunch, “and a parent wanted to sign their child out to go to that, then that would be a parent’s right to sign their child out to go to that.” He added, however, “You know very well that’s not going to happen here.”}
This is downright chilling to me. It's an acknowledgement that no one would dare do anything that would exposé them as non-believers, it would likely be almost as bad for any other religion except for maybe Jewish kids. It's saying 'I know my people and they're gonna turn any atheists parents and their kids lives into hell if they try that'. Who know what's up with this Woods character, considering the prevalence of all kinds of abuse from actual clergy of actual churches, he isn't completely in the wrong about objecting to being asked questions that aren't being asked of the religious programs. The answer isn't to not ask him, it's to put some kind of monitoring in place for any program granted access to kids.
I think a bigger issue is how the Ohio effort gets around the establishment clause issues, it's like the increasing use of clever tactics, like the forced birther laws in Texas, that impose religious crap on everyone but in ways that shield the religious aspects from the law. There's a lot of great lawyers on our side at institutions like FFRF, CFI, etc, maybe they need to find more devious ahole attorneys, but that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Fighting the good fight shouldn't mean you have to stoop to the devious, dishonest, and despicable tactics the faithful are all too eager to engage in.
"...Atheist/Science release time. The curriculum will include American Education standard Biology, Astronomy, and General Science."
What's the atheist part. I learned about all those subjects is school and religion/atheism never came up. Looking back, I'm pretty sure most of my teachers were religious. I can't say for sure because religion was rarely brought up and then it was a casual mention and not part of the curriculum.
Atheist indoctrination isn't better than religious indoctrination.
Christians never stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools, paid for with everyone's tax dollars. Their overwhelming need to indoctrinate children before they've reached the age of reason, speaks to how little confidence they really have in their message. Why is it ever acceptable to present things to children as facts, an educated adult would almost certainly reject if hearing them for the first time?
It's been noted here (and on previous versions of Friendly Atheist) many, many, many times that the reason churches aren't seeing people in their pews anymore has more to do with their stances on specific issues and how they've behaved on those issues than anything else.
So when I read about a church official of any stripe complaining about how “Eighty percent of children in our county are not in church,” and going on to say “Ninety percent of them are in the public schools" my immediate reaction is along the lines of 'so stop being jerks to so many people and prove your claims about being morally superior, duh.'
I think that atheist parents should be using these school-based indoctrination programs to help their kids learn how to mentally resist this sort of forcible lockstep thinking in the future. From the political shenanigans we've been watching lately, the kids are going to need it very, very soon.
“Eighty percent of children in our county are not in church,”
There's your Good News, right there.
"Christians know their biggest obstacle is children who can think for themselves."
Nailed it.
Do Christians really believe that the reason non-Christian, American kids aren't going to church is that they've never heard of Jesus Christ? That that's even possible?
“you will not get anything from me, I don't care if you have photos of yourself with Bill Nye and look pretty on Fox News.”
If he really wanted to flatter you , he should have called you Jeopardy Champion.
Even if Wood was fully prepared, resourced, and staffed to make it happen, I think I still wouldn't endorse it.
I think the secularist response to "we want kids to be able to choose to get out of school classes for bible classes" should be "we don't want kids to be able to choose to get out of any school classes", NOT "we want kids to also be able to get out of school classes for secular classes."
IOW: that public school art class the kids are skipping to go to bibe study? That art class IS the "secular alternative" we should be endorsing. I'm not looking to pull kids away from the district's curriculum to teach them my ideas. I'm looking to support that curriculum.
Schools shouldn't be viewed as pools of potential believers. This just pisses me off so much, misusing public schools to troll for followers. And this guy Wood isn't doing anyone any favors with his nonsense. Yes, I would like to see these churchy programs eliminated. But being a loco, screaming jerk is not the way to go about it.
𝐼𝑡’𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜, 𝑓𝑟𝑢𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑙𝑦, 𝑙𝑒𝑔𝑎𝑙 𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑡 𝑖𝑠𝑛’𝑡 𝑡𝑒𝑐ℎ𝑛𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑜𝑟𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑢𝑠 𝑒𝑑𝑢𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑙𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑔𝑜 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑑𝑢𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑒𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑖𝑛 ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑠 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑠’ 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛.
What it REALLY is is a waste of time and taxpayer money. That time could be spent in INSTRUCTION, rather than INDOCTRINATION, yet there are school officials who will allow this foolishness to go on because they continue to be hornswoggled by the notion that religion and faith are positive influences on individuals and communities.
If parents really want their kids to learn religion, they can send them to Sunday School. They should NOT be wasting public resources which are dedicated to public schools.
𝘜𝘨𝘩. How can anyone win when everyone in the game is a loser?
Don't try to bluff your way to a win unless you have the resources and a plan to follow through when the theocrats call your bluff- because they 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭; they're playing for keeps. So come prepared, or else leave it in the hands of someone more capable of backing up their talk, like TST or the FFRF. Otherwise, you'll end up looking like... well, like 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 clown.
This is fuel for Christian propaganda. All done to give people the false impression of how it's better to have Christian programs than atheist programs because "secular" programs are run by worthless cranks while Christians are run by "better, knowledgeable" people. Never mind there are certain "secular" organizations that are run by better, knowledgeable, well organized people, such as The Secular Coalition for America for instance.
Now I wonder if he's an actual Fundie Christian in disguise or something.
My first thought was that this was a clever ruse by some church to make atheists look bad, but then I remembered they're probably not that smart.
Allow kids to skip classes without penalty?
That happened when I was a kid. As a Catholic child, we called it Catechism. You can see how I turned out.
[if American Secularists were to offer the program they’ve proposed during lunch, “and a parent wanted to sign their child out to go to that, then that would be a parent’s right to sign their child out to go to that.” He added, however, “You know very well that’s not going to happen here.”}
This is downright chilling to me. It's an acknowledgement that no one would dare do anything that would exposé them as non-believers, it would likely be almost as bad for any other religion except for maybe Jewish kids. It's saying 'I know my people and they're gonna turn any atheists parents and their kids lives into hell if they try that'. Who know what's up with this Woods character, considering the prevalence of all kinds of abuse from actual clergy of actual churches, he isn't completely in the wrong about objecting to being asked questions that aren't being asked of the religious programs. The answer isn't to not ask him, it's to put some kind of monitoring in place for any program granted access to kids.
I think a bigger issue is how the Ohio effort gets around the establishment clause issues, it's like the increasing use of clever tactics, like the forced birther laws in Texas, that impose religious crap on everyone but in ways that shield the religious aspects from the law. There's a lot of great lawyers on our side at institutions like FFRF, CFI, etc, maybe they need to find more devious ahole attorneys, but that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Fighting the good fight shouldn't mean you have to stoop to the devious, dishonest, and despicable tactics the faithful are all too eager to engage in.
“Eighty percent of children in our county are not in church,”
If it was the truth why would parents sign for a church program during school hours ?
Maybe this "atheist group" should ask some advices to Donda academy founder.
"...Atheist/Science release time. The curriculum will include American Education standard Biology, Astronomy, and General Science."
What's the atheist part. I learned about all those subjects is school and religion/atheism never came up. Looking back, I'm pretty sure most of my teachers were religious. I can't say for sure because religion was rarely brought up and then it was a casual mention and not part of the curriculum.
Atheist indoctrination isn't better than religious indoctrination.
Christians never stop trying to mark their territory in the public schools, paid for with everyone's tax dollars. Their overwhelming need to indoctrinate children before they've reached the age of reason, speaks to how little confidence they really have in their message. Why is it ever acceptable to present things to children as facts, an educated adult would almost certainly reject if hearing them for the first time?
It's been noted here (and on previous versions of Friendly Atheist) many, many, many times that the reason churches aren't seeing people in their pews anymore has more to do with their stances on specific issues and how they've behaved on those issues than anything else.
So when I read about a church official of any stripe complaining about how “Eighty percent of children in our county are not in church,” and going on to say “Ninety percent of them are in the public schools" my immediate reaction is along the lines of 'so stop being jerks to so many people and prove your claims about being morally superior, duh.'
I think that atheist parents should be using these school-based indoctrination programs to help their kids learn how to mentally resist this sort of forcible lockstep thinking in the future. From the political shenanigans we've been watching lately, the kids are going to need it very, very soon.